One must be careful how they talk about “the church.” Yes the church has had its share of failures through the centuries, but one must remember that the church IS how God works on earth. The church is His body, the church is His hands, His feet. His Holy Spirit abides in its members, etc.

The church is also His bride, the object of His love and devotion. And affection. Even the Laodician church of Revelation that sickened the heart of the Lord, is still told by Jesus that He loves them. The banter that comes from the lips of the emergent types is foolish and in some cases shows a lack of spiritual understanding, discernment or maturity. Yes its ok, to call lame stuff out, but its to be done in a way to bring change, growth and edification, (read Paul’s letters to the Corinthians). We ho claim to follow Christ can say its all lame and walk away to do our own thing.

I’d also like to respond to the statements about church government. The government structures in the church be them Episcopalian or Presbyterian were written down by the Holy Spirit through the hand of the apostles – these are Gods words about how to govern His church, so be careful what you criticize, because in reality your criticizing the Lord. Not every Episcopalian structure is filled with the abuses of the middle ages or some bizarre sects today. we need to understand the Lord wanted his churches governed a certain way for a reason, and we are to honor Him in this, even if we don’t necessarily like it. Its pat of that whole, He is Lord thing.

Also, labeling what is emergent or not is also silly. Who really cares? Or what’s relevant or not – relevant to whom? Are we the judge of what is relevant? Pipe organs and hymnals are relevant to my grandmother. Who am I to say that Jesus doesn’t meet her there in that structure. Id be an arrogant fool to say that Jesus is only relevant by what is relevant to me.

Most the ideas propagated by the emergent moment are nothing new, deep or profound. These ideas have surfaced and resurfaced time an time again though out church history, the good ideals have been done before, and the bad ideals have been put down before. Some of its Ideals are awesome, but the theology is border line heretical in some circles. Its already set up for its demise.

Many who I know outside the church who look in and are up with this emergent stuff say that “they present themselves to be spoiled youth group kids who didn’t get to rock in Sunday school” – they don’t see anything attractive about this movement, multitudes aren’t coming to faith as in the Jesus movement, an other valid movements. Most I know in the movement are believers who were hurt by something the institutional church did, right or wrong, but instead of getting healing, or having healthy confrontation to the issues, they just take the football and go home. bashing the whole thing.

Jesus didn’t say “they will know they are my disciples by there lame opinions of my bride.” He said, “they will know they are My disciples by there love for one another” meaning how Christians love one another is what shows the world that they belong to Him, and what gives them a reason to come to Him. When I see this love coming from the emergent movement then maybe myself others outside of upper middle class white America will by into it.

All of this to say, that Jesus does the works of God, through the Spirit of God in and through the people of God. He meets them where they are at in ways laid out in scripture. That’s what is relevant. Instead of ranting against what you don’t like – instead just spend your energizes on letting the Lord love others through you, then you’ll see a valid spiritual movement that honors Jesus.

It was the church that had originally disappointed me actually. Time and time again I watched people use the name of God completely against the point of whom and what God is. It really upset me and led me to think that the church was a rather pointless institution. I stopped going almost altogether till my friend Harold, a long time apologetist and very good trusted friend, pointed me to Regeneration. In Regeneration I found myself again and the real God with real Christians.

So yes I agree with you the church can be all sorts of things for each of us. I wish you all the best on your road to healing. It’s a tough road but luckily we know if He is for us, none can be against us. He’ll help you find your road back.

Thanks for the response – yes, I have come out of a tough situation myself, and one that I’m still dealing with. But I guess my point is that, and I’m not trying to be adversarial here, is just to say, that although God uses people and church things along the way, no matter how they look, even if they are “good,” it’s not the people or institutions that heal, or that lead us on, but the Holy Spirit. Sometimes it’s the church stuff that seems to work the best for a time that can end up disappointing us the most in the end. That’s not to say that was the case for you. I’m not in NY, but thanks to this site for providing a forum for comment.

I can hear your passion for Christ’s return and for God to be given the Glory in your words. If you are concerned about Regen being a top down approach that throws it’s power around like the Catholic Church of Bloody Mary’s reign (Tudor Dynasty, England) then you are honestly barking up the wrong tree. Check out the sermons at Recast Web and you will find a humble pastor who’s willing to poke fun at himself and point out his own faults before he points out the faults of others. (He use to play keyboards in the band, Echoing Green.)

Also, the church does worship by a rock n roll band and candles and is then taught in the Berkley, hippy style of that area of California. They even offer soy for coffee! (Hardly something “normal”.)

This is a church who has brought me back from a toxic faith to one of health because it keeps things simple and focuses on the bible. It challenges it’s members to live according to the words of Christ and keeps them accountable for doing so. It loves unlike any mainstream church I have ever spent time in. It created a safe place where one could go to share thier issues and know that they are not going to be gossiped and bantered about like leaves in the wind. If more churches did that maybe we would have a bride instead of a harem, like Isaac said.

Trust me I feel your pain, as one outcast of the modern church of hyprocrisy to another, watching people who are willing to say one thing and then do another leaves a sour taste in our mouths and hardly does anything to promote the true unity of Christ and his Church. I believe it is one of the reasons we are hated in the world.

Regeneration is the real deal and if you lived in the SF Bay Area you could go and see it for yourself. Otherwise if you are here in NY, please come out to Transmission and I will sit down with you personally and we can discuss your concerns about the church further. (If you come please let me know in advance so I can make sure to be there as well.)

Although I agree that the term “emergent” is thrown around quite a bit, I also believe that it’s not the mission of the church to play “who’s in” and “who’s out” games. Jesus welcomed everyone who came to him: tax collectors, sinners, scribes, pharisees, prostitutes, political zealots, and more. The church spends too much time pointing figures at itself and saying “you’re not a true Christian,” “you haven’t been saved,” or “you aren’t really emergent.” We’d do much better to spend our energy feeding the hungry and clothing the naked.

There are a lot of Christians in the world with whom I profoundly disagree, and yet at the same time I recognize the need for Christian unity. As Shane Claiborne says, when Jesus comes back he’ll be looking for a bride, not a harem…

I highly recommend both the Gibbs and Bolger book
and the wikipedia article, both of which were written by people smarter than me.